I cannot seem to articulate my positions or feelings in this blog without being partisian. So in my best attempt to do so, I offer this conversation from a 19yr man and myself between why he’s voting the way he is and my discourse to sway him from that vote. The original message is first followed by my reply – I deemed it that note worthy.
—————– Original Message —————–
From: ﴾HÑFL﴿™Naþalm|Β°SS
Date: Oct 13, 2008 12:52 AM
obama talks about change, the change he speaks up is giant steps towards socialism. i dont really want to argue lol, but i thought i’d hear what you have to say to that, and his friend “the terrorist” and what about the interview where he said he was going to visit all 57 states, when 57 united states dont exist… but ironically, there are 57 states in islam… a few things to think about.
and my opinion is i feel im not comfortable voting for either at the momnent. they both have someups and downs, im not gonna lie, im kinda leaning towards mCcain, but like i said idk
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MY REPLY
Okay, I hear where your coming from because about 2 years ago I thought of myself as a socially liberal (pro-choice, for gay marriage) and a fiscal conservative (we can take care of ourselves and we do not need to give the government money to do so). I supported Ron Paul full fledged and now have done a complete 180 turn to the liberal sec of the Democratic party. How did this happen? Let me tell you.
First off, the most prosperous era of this nations history was under what the neo-conservatives deem “socialism”. FDR’s new deal was the greatest involvement in the lives of all Americans at any point in history. He grabbed us from our bootstraps and put forth his plan to turn us around. The stock market failed and the nation was in chaos. In his presidency he brought us through the toughest times our nation has ever seen by taxing the shit out of the wealthy and providing for the middle class. Corporate tax rates exceeded 50% (they are 15% or below 25% if my memory serves me correctly) therefor giving the people of this country more options or abilities or whatever your want to deem them than any other time. If we thought the new neo-con policies were viable (which this president does) the tax rates that we have now would benefit the rich, allow the revenue (taxes monies) to trickle down to the middle class – which does not happen. People are not perfect. People are still raped, robbed and mistreated, in which I feel is the flaw in conservative economics. If the wealthy dispersed their money properly to the blue collar/middle class and Americans saved properly, we would have no need for a minimum wage or social security.
My thoughts come admitting that we are not perfect. The wealthy do no give their workers the proper wages and do everything they legally can to maximize profit to compete in this globalized economy. Stating this, lies a flaw I have not even come to solve. If we are to compete than shouldnt companies invest whatever they can to further their businesses? ala China paying shit wages by providing for their society, allowing it to somewhat flourish – though no where near what we are capable in this country. I have many thoughts on the Asian governments in how their economy works and how their education system works, but have not currently read enough to form any logical opinion.
Our country on the contrary offers a sort of social security system through medicaid, medicare and social security. What these systems do is watch out for retirees. It acknowledges that we are not perfect and that the system we all live under is not perfect either. What I mean by this is look at the rising cost in health care for drugs, surgeries or anything that the means towards their well being is taken care of. How does the “free market” play into this? It doesn’t. It is complete socialism, and it works. But socialism is bad you say? It is when taken on a fundamental level, as is capitalism which is inherently flawed when one deals with the socio-economic consequences of its design. Sure, the fundamental Chicago School/Friedman-esque definition we deal with today has done some good, but look at Iraq and our current economic state.
Europe is nationalizing banks in part due to the dirty securities we sold them, we loaned wall street billions of dollars to inject liquidity (loan available cash to banks and firms to allow consumers to take credit) and wealth inequality (amount of million/billionaires/monetary strength of the middle class) is the worse its been since the gilded age – hence the stock market crashing and the bailout/loans to wall street to avoid the consequences of the early great depression.
Okay, I hope I haven’t gone too economic on you because, one, I’m not the best economics wiz but I am a political junkie. I meet few people that are true econ genius’s and do not just believe the Chicago school rules of econ or take a more “liberal” stance as the past referred to as Keynes theories or today as Krugman at the New York Times.
The change Obama refers to is going back to the New Deal ideals. Taxing the ultra rich to benefit the middle class. Yes, it is not “fair” but life isn’t fair. But then again if we tax the rich of the country to benefit the low tiers, how will they learn “responsibility”? They will by having better lives. Imagine if the ghettos of the country were not ghettos. If the whitetrash hicks had a better life and didn’t “cling to guns and religion”. They would be able to spend and invest more in the markets. But at the same time it would go against the fundamental capitalistic ideas of the free market. Well I feel those ideas are inherently flawed. If all was well and we could abide by those rules, we wouldn’t need social security or therefor any social security policy whatsoever.
I feel government can operate more efficiently than the private sector under the right administration and under Obama I have the hope that he can administer a New New Deal. We have the same symptoms of those times. Mortgages bundled together and sold and securities, those securities defaulting because people signed a deal with the devil without thinking and the lending institutions gave too much leeway to the people without thinking of the consequences. The blame suits both sides, but neither want to take responsibility, so people lose their homes and firms get a tax payer bailout – fair huh?
Okay, secondly, the 57 states blurb. I youtubed it and he did say it. But McCain also confused Israelis and Palestinians or Shiia and Sunni. I don’t remember because it doesn’t matter. Being a Obama supporter I should hate and despise the idiocracy of the mans statement but I know that it doesn’t matter, it was simple gaffe and he misspoke and Liebermann corrected him – no fucking biggy. Now if this guilt by association bullshit with Obama and Farrakhan, Ayers and Rev. Wright would end I’d be happy. I mean no one in the “liberal media” seems to bring up the overall philosophy of the republican party being deregulation – especially for a Reagan “footsoldier” as McCain or his connections to the Keating 5 and Oli North.
But I don’t care about bullshit like that, these are just argument hedges to distract us from major issues as foreign policy, taxes and misc. social issues.
I post bulletins daily asking whose voting for who, who isnt voting for Obama and why? I argue with right wing nutjobs, liberal whacko’s and centrist pricks who cant makeup their fucking mind but I still call myself a moderate for one reason.
Our political scene right now is fucked. We are split between one absolute and another. Their is no viable medium, unless you count Allen Barr (Libertarian) and Nader (Green party I believe?).
Now I am sidetracked, so lets get back on track.
Your comfort level I believe stands for the majority of our nations voters. They simply just want to be able to advance themselves in life and provide for their present or future families. They want themselves and their family to live the “American dream”. Which is completely understandable. I myself am living the American dream though quite lazily and un-appreciatively as I can. I play video games throughout the day while going to colleg for free. But at the same time I read my assigned readings and further myself by reading classics by Thomas Paine, Socrates (My historically favorite “being”), Aristotle, homer, Douglass as well as modern theorists as Gleick on the subject of Chaos. I listen to Bill O’Reilly and have read all his books from the perspective as the traditional American. I read Geraldo’s thoughts on immigration, Paul Krugman on economics and Irshad Manji on Islamic liberalism. Could I do better? Of course I could, but I make the choice to dick around and get wasted every weekend. Something I hope remedy as soon as I enter a university, finish my bachelors degree and maybe go onto a masters or even PhD in political science because it is a subject I deep and profound feelings on. I love and hate the political climate we live in. It encourages intellectual thought and progress more than any other time (despite the deepest polarization since Vietnam).
Now, lets get back the political nitty-gritty that I adore. Now is the time for “big government”. Government regulation and control is needed. I could spew every liberal talking point there is about Iraq or the philosophical points of the Neo-Conservative Republican party. But I won’t, because there is no sense is being that bloody redundant. We can play the blame game 24/7 but nothing will be accomplished – which during this administration is not something we are not used to – which needs to be changed. I want the role of government to enlarge. Somehow that makes me a socialist and a follow or Marx and Engel, despite their manifesto portraying complete communism. We can thank Michael Savage and Limbaugh for that.
In a quick attempt to make me seem somewhat non-partisan. I hate the cultural far-left. The North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) defending, ACLU rooting, somewhat true socialist philosophy loving kooks. I hate them, and have no problem stating that.
Back to our non-topics again. I’ll lightning round these.
The current war: We shouldn’t be in fucking Iraq. Once again, we shouldn’t be in fucking Iraq. They had no influence on 9/11 but we’re there. I remember after 9/11 wanting to kill every fucking Arab there was. But I was young and stupid, so that is my excuse. I still am young, and still am stupid, but I regard myself as a informed stupid youth to say the least. We brought the sectarian violence to Iraq. We thought they had WMD’s. We knew Saddam was a violent dictator and I’m sure I can find an article linking Saddam (Sunni) to Bin Laden (Shia). Which makes no sense to me whatsoever. We put our troops in the biggest culture shock of all time. We privatized construction instead of letterin Iraqis rebuild. We employed mercenaries or as they are euphemistically called “security contractors” instead of having faith in our soldiers (but don’t tell the republicans that – their hyper-patriotic bullshit rhetoric is the only thing they have left in this election). We’re swaying an I apologize.
Look, the right says they believe in life, but would commit some to economic suicide through their pro-life policies.
We’re in Iraq and it is the most thoroughly strategically and fiscally mismanaged war or all time in our nations history. I don’t care what side your on.
The right (repubs) loves to assert “the surged worked” and without McCain’s brilliance in swaying Bush to insert more troops the war would have failed.
Well, the side I agree with (the left (democrats)) was right. We shouldnt even be there. It’s news to me Saddam and Osama were pals and I do believe Has Blix stated he needed more time and could not find any of the WMD’s we said Iraq had (even though we funded certain parts of the state – along Reagan and Osama in the Russian/Afghan war).
Just to interrupt, I want to quote the song of our time – Matchbox Twenty: How far we’ve come
But I believe the world is burning to the ground
oh well I guess we’re gonna find out
let’s see how far we’ve come
let’s see how far we’ve come
Well I, believe, it all, is coming to an end
oh well, I guess, we’re gonna pretend,
let’s see how far we’ve come
let’s see how far we’ve come
Now, how about socialistic “Universal Healthcare”. Let’s tackle that issue now and get it over with. I believe as the right principally believes in the right to life. They seem to be however only be concerned with the right of a unborn child/fetus. But I am concerned with the lives of folks in life. I am pro-life, it is the concern of the person aborting a pregnancy and not the governments in my eyes when it comes to abortion. But I believe it is the governments choice to provide health care for its citizens. I have a 22 year old friend with chrohns disease or something un-identifiable, and before he had job provided healthcare paid about $30,000 in fee’s from a southeast Michigan hospital and another friend whom died from cancer and his family paid the fee’s of 3 years treatment/healthcare fees. Should we all, collectively encourage the right to treatment and care for illness? I believe so. To live the American dream we must initially live and not become mortal to the price of treatment.
Let’s keep moving forward. How about jobs and labor? I believe the Us car companies have paid their white collar workers an exorbitant amount of money while neglecting job training for their former workers. They force buyouts for old workers to take (as to my belief an uncle of mine did) without offering any post-retraining to their workers. If I work for a company for 10+ years I expect something from them. I will have a certain loyalty to this company – whether logical or faith based (which is the remains of the US car companies). I don’t care about anything when it comes to these guys. You work an extended period, the company should have some accountability to your livelihood. Whether it be retraining, severance or retirement packages. These people worked for you, you made a profit and now their fucked. The best example comes from the recent AIH fiasco. Their former white collar workers are enjoying $40k spa treatments while their lower tier workers suffer and search for new jobs. I believe this is the fairness and compassion fundamental capitalists abide to, but refuse to recognize – hence while labor tends to side with democrats.
My own father is a gearhead. If the US companies completely switched from the combustible engines of our time to electrical, hydrogen or whatever he would be forced to retain despite being less then 5 year from retirement which he personally saved for. That’s not right, and I know he is not the only one.
Is wishing our country was not the hemi-v8-twin turbo-supercharged country we are un-patriotic? No. It is what us better for the country and certain persons hold a liability towards their workers, despite the times we live in. We need off Oil (transportation wise) and off coal and all carbon energies. More renewable energy, NOW. But mandating any of this, or anything I’ve said is socialistic and it interferes with the “free market”.
So I may be just another corrupter youth by the “liberal establishment” of secondary education. Or maybe the “liberal media” segwayed me from the truth (despite not bring McCain’s Keating 5 involvement until the last month of the election). But who knows. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m right.
I’ve got the info I have now and I came to the most logical conclusion I have deemed.
How far have we come? How far will we go?
Who knows. I just want everyone to have the chance to live the American dream as the previous generations have had and want everyone despite race or sex to have the same.
P.S. I didn’t touch immigration, but just reply for my input.
And I know who did it, you Irish fuck 